[CF-metadata] new standard names for flood simulation

[Eizi TOYODA]

Dear all,

I would like to propose some new standard names for flood simulation, on
behalf of Japanese colleagues working for hydrology.

River authorities are responsible for doing simulation of floods due to
breach of river banks, which used to be published only in paper maps.
Right now we plan to recommend publishing raster data in CF format.
Following is the example of CDL for such data.
https://gist.github.com/etoyoda/1ad78c1df01126c3e731

That includes new variables as follows. Thanks in advance for your
consideration of our request.

Best Regards,
Eizi
--
Eiji (aka Eizi) TOYODA, Japan Meteorological Agency
http://www.google.com/profiles/toyoda.eizi


1) flood_depth

The flood_depth is the vertical distance
between the surface of the flood water
and the surface of ground,
as measured at a given point in space.

Canonical Units: m


2) flood_water_speed

Speed is the magnitude of velocity.
The flood_water is water that covers land
which is normally not covered by water.

Canonical Units: m.s-1


3) eastward_flood_water_velocity

A velocity is a vector quantity.
"Eastward" indicates a vector component
which is positive when directed eastward (negative westward).
The flood_water is water that covers land
which is normally not covered by water.

Canonical Units: m.s-1


4) northward_flood_water_velocity

A velocity is a vector quantity.
"Northward" indicates a vector component which is positive when directed
northward (negative southward).
The flood_water is water that covers land
which is normally not covered by water.

Canonical Units: m.s-1


5) ground_altitude

The ground_altitude is the geometric height of
the upper boundary of the solid Earth above the geoid,
which is the reference geopotentisal surface.
The geoid is similar to mean sea level.

Canonical Units: m

Rationale: the CF standard name table already has
a name ``surface_altitude'', but in this case the surface is defined as
the lower boundary of the atmosphere.
In the flood water simulation the levels do not match.


6) flood_arrival_time

The flood_arrival_time is the time elapsed
from the break of levee (origin of flood water simulation)
until the flood water arrives to a given point in space.
The flood_water is water that covers land
which is normally not covered by water.

Canonical Units: s


7) time_at_maximum_flood_depth

The time_at_maximum_flood_depth is the time elapsed
from the break of levee (origin of flood water simulation)
until the time when the flood depth reaches to the maximum
during the simulation for a given point in space.
The flood_water is water that covers land
which is normally not covered by water.

Canonical Units: s


8) time_when_flood_water_goes_below_threshold

The time_when_flood_water_goes_below_threshold is the time elapsed
from the break of levee (origin of flood water simulation)
until the time when the flood depth goes below
a given threshold for a given point in space.
The flood_water is water that covers land
which is normally not covered by water.

Canonical Units: s


9) time_span_with_flood_depth_above_threshold

The time_span_with_flood_depth_above_threshold is the time elapsed
from the time when the flood depth firstly goes above a given threshold
until the time when the flood depth finally goes below the threshold
for a given point in space.
The flood_water is water that covers land
which is normally not covered by water.

Canonical Units: s

10) hazard_area_flags

The hazard_area_flags is a set of flags representing
different types of hazards for a given point in space.

Canonical Units: N/A

[Chris Barker]

a thought:

1) flood_depth

Post by Eizi TOYODA
2) flood_water_speed
3) eastward_flood_water_velocity
4) northward_flood_water_velocity
5) ground_altitude

could you use the existing standard names used for various oceanographic
and cisculation models? These are all existing concepts.

-Chris
--
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer

Emergency Response Division
NOAA/NOS/OR&R [phone] voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE [phone] fax
Seattle, WA 98115 [phone] main reception

***@noaa.gov

[Eizi TOYODA]

Hi,

Thanks for consideration and an idea.

1. Flood water and seawater are both liquid water on top of solid earth
surface. Some properties are common in terms of physics as you suggest.
But there is difference in nature:

- The sea has always seawater in the normal state.
Few people think about when a basin or a bay dries up.
- There is no flood water in the normal state.
Hydrologists' always think about when it appears and disappears.

So there are concepts only used in flood simulation, not in oceanography.
It might look awkward or weird if we use sea_water instead of flood_water:

6) sea_water_arrival_time
7) time_at_maximum_sea_water_depth
8) time_when_sea_water_goes_below_threshold
9) time_span_with_sea_water_depth_above_threshold

2. Current standard name table includes names including land_ice,
surface_snow, surface_snow_and_ice, all are layer made of H2O temporarily
on top of solid earth. For me it is not unnatural to see flood water in
line with them.

3. Current standard name table also includes quantities related to runoff,
which could be substituted by sea water velocity. It looks like the CF
community in the past did not try to convert the terminology of
hydrologists into that of oceanography.

Regards,
Eizi TOYODA, Japan Meteorological Agency


Best Regards,
--
Eiji (aka Eizi) TOYODA
http://www.google.com/profiles/toyoda.eizi

Post by Eizi TOYODA
1) flood_depth

Post by Eizi TOYODA
2) flood_water_speed
3) eastward_flood_water_velocity
4) northward_flood_water_velocity
5) ground_altitude

could you use the existing standard names used for various oceanographic
and cisculation models? These are all existing concepts.
-Chris
--
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
Emergency Response Division
NOAA/NOS/OR&R [phone] voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE [phone] fax
Seattle, WA 98115 [phone] main reception

[Chris Barker]

Post by Eizi TOYODA
1. Flood water and seawater are both liquid water on top of solid earth
surface. Some properties are common in terms of physics as you suggest.

indeed -- I somehow never notes that the standard names use "sea_water"
rather than just "water". So yes, you wouldn't want to use that for
flooding in river, etc, where it is indeed, not seawater.

though may it's time to introduce "water" names, rather than adding
"flood+water", then "river_water", then "estuary_water", etc...

Post by Eizi TOYODA
- The sea has always seawater in the normal state.
Few people think about when a basin or a bay dries up.

actually, wetting-=drying in tidal areas is often a big deal, as is storm
surge, so it's not out of the question to use the same names for these.

I don't see any names with "storm" or "surge" in them -- I wonder what the
storm surge modelers use?

So there are concepts only used in flood simulation, not in oceanography.
yes, because it's not, in fact sea water generally...

Post by Eizi TOYODA
6) sea_water_arrival_time
7) time_at_maximum_sea_water_depth
8) time_when_sea_water_goes_below_threshold
9) time_span_with_sea_water_depth_above_threshold
2. Current standard name table includes names including land_ice,
surface_snow, surface_snow_and_ice, all are layer made of H2O temporarily
on top of solid earth. For me it is not unnatural to see flood water in
line with them.

well, trying to keep name proliferation down, but yes, clearly the
sea_water names are not appropriate.

Post by Eizi TOYODA
3. Current standard name table also includes quantities related to runoff,
which could be substituted by sea water velocity. It looks like the CF
community in the past did not try to convert the terminology of
hydrologists into that of oceanography.

Indeed -- it started with climate modeling, and extended to general
oceanographic and meteorological modeling, but hydrology is new.

I'd rather see some more cross-discipline names, but adding a set for
hydrological modeling is a fine idea as well.

-Chris
--
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer

Emergency Response Division
NOAA/NOS/OR&R [phone] voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE [phone] fax
Seattle, WA 98115 [phone] main reception

***@noaa.gov

[Eizi TOYODA]

Hi Chris and all,

Now I think the word "flood_water" can refer to temporary water body on the
land surface, regardless the cause is river overflow, storm surge, or
tsunami. I've talked with a storm surge expert in JMA. He says it is okay
for him, and probably for tsunami expert.

That may not be perfect but (I hope) is a meaningful effort to combat with
creeping proliferation of names.

- River water simulation is often done on tree-like network, not in
grids. That's probably the reason we (CF community) didn't talk much about
river water (in non-flooding state) more than runoff, which also belongs to
the land surface model.
- I hope people (if any) are not so uncomfortable with using "sea_water"
for estuary water....
--
Best Regards,
Eizi TOYODA, Japan Meteorological Agency
Assoc Member, WMO/CBS/IPET-DRMM

Best Regards,
--
Eiji (aka Eizi) TOYODA
http://www.google.com/profiles/toyoda.eizi

Post by Chris Barker

Post by Eizi TOYODA
1. Flood water and seawater are both liquid water on top of solid earth
surface. Some properties are common in terms of physics as you suggest.

indeed -- I somehow never notes that the standard names use "sea_water"
rather than just "water". So yes, you wouldn't want to use that for
flooding in river, etc, where it is indeed, not seawater.
though may it's time to introduce "water" names, rather than adding
"flood+water", then "river_water", then "estuary_water", etc...

Post by Eizi TOYODA
- The sea has always seawater in the normal state.
Few people think about when a basin or a bay dries up.

actually, wetting-=drying in tidal areas is often a big deal, as is storm
surge, so it's not out of the question to use the same names for these.
I don't see any names with "storm" or "surge" in them -- I wonder what the
storm surge modelers use?
So there are concepts only used in flood simulation, not in oceanography.
yes, because it's not, in fact sea water generally...

Post by Eizi TOYODA
6) sea_water_arrival_time
7) time_at_maximum_sea_water_depth
8) time_when_sea_water_goes_below_threshold
9) time_span_with_sea_water_depth_above_threshold
2. Current standard name table includes names including land_ice,
surface_snow, surface_snow_and_ice, all are layer made of H2O temporarily
on top of solid earth. For me it is not unnatural to see flood water in
line with them.

well, trying to keep name proliferation down, but yes, clearly the
sea_water names are not appropriate.

Post by Eizi TOYODA
3. Current standard name table also includes quantities related to
runoff, which could be substituted by sea water velocity. It looks like
the CF community in the past did not try to convert the terminology of
hydrologists into that of oceanography.

Indeed -- it started with climate modeling, and extended to general
oceanographic and meteorological modeling, but hydrology is new.
I'd rather see some more cross-discipline names, but adding a set for
hydrological modeling is a fine idea as well.
-Chris
--
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
Emergency Response Division
NOAA/NOS/OR&R [phone] voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE [phone] fax
Seattle, WA 98115 [phone] main reception

[Chris Barker]

Post by Eizi TOYODA
Now I think the word "flood_water" can refer to temporary water body on
the land surface, regardless the cause is river overflow, storm surge, or
tsunami. I've talked with a storm surge expert in JMA. He says it is okay
for him, and probably for tsunami expert.

Makes sense to me.


- I hope people (if any) are not so uncomfortable with using "sea_water"

Post by Eizi TOYODA
for estuary water....

I'd probably rather have just "water" or "surface_water" (to distinguish
from ground water) -- but that's what we have now, so might as well stick
with it.

-Chris

Post by Eizi TOYODA
--
Best Regards,
Eizi TOYODA, Japan Meteorological Agency
Assoc Member, WMO/CBS/IPET-DRMM
Best Regards,
--
Eiji (aka Eizi) TOYODA
http://www.google.com/profiles/toyoda.eizi

Post by Chris Barker

Post by Eizi TOYODA
1. Flood water and seawater are both liquid water on top of solid earth
surface. Some properties are common in terms of physics as you suggest.

indeed -- I somehow never notes that the standard names use "sea_water"
rather than just "water". So yes, you wouldn't want to use that for
flooding in river, etc, where it is indeed, not seawater.
though may it's time to introduce "water" names, rather than adding
"flood+water", then "river_water", then "estuary_water", etc...

Post by Eizi TOYODA
- The sea has always seawater in the normal state.
Few people think about when a basin or a bay dries up.

actually, wetting-=drying in tidal areas is often a big deal, as is storm
surge, so it's not out of the question to use the same names for these.
I don't see any names with "storm" or "surge" in them -- I wonder what
the storm surge modelers use?
So there are concepts only used in flood simulation, not in

Post by Eizi TOYODA
oceanography. It might look awkward or weird if we use sea_water instead

yes, because it's not, in fact sea water generally...

Post by Eizi TOYODA
6) sea_water_arrival_time
7) time_at_maximum_sea_water_depth
8) time_when_sea_water_goes_below_threshold
9) time_span_with_sea_water_depth_above_threshold
2. Current standard name table includes names including land_ice,
surface_snow, surface_snow_and_ice, all are layer made of H2O temporarily
on top of solid earth. For me it is not unnatural to see flood water in
line with them.

well, trying to keep name proliferation down, but yes, clearly the
sea_water names are not appropriate.

Post by Eizi TOYODA
3. Current standard name table also includes quantities related to
runoff, which could be substituted by sea water velocity. It looks like
the CF community in the past did not try to convert the terminology of
hydrologists into that of oceanography.

Indeed -- it started with climate modeling, and extended to general
oceanographic and meteorological modeling, but hydrology is new.
I'd rather see some more cross-discipline names, but adding a set for
hydrological modeling is a fine idea as well.
-Chris
--
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
Emergency Response Division
NOAA/NOS/OR&R [phone] voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE [phone] fax
Seattle, WA 98115 [phone] main reception

--
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer

Emergency Response Division
NOAA/NOS/OR&R [phone] voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE [phone] fax
Seattle, WA 98115 [phone] main reception

***@noaa.gov

[Jonathan Gregory]

Dear Eizi

I have comments on some of your names.

Post by Eizi TOYODA
5) ground_altitude

I appreciate the distinction you are making from surface altitude. Yes, we
should stick with surface meaning the bottom of the atmosphere, be it solid
or liquid. In some existing standard names, we have the phrase ground_level
(not just ground, like sea_level). For consistency with these, I'd suggest
ground_level_altitude.

Post by Eizi TOYODA
1) flood_depth
The flood_depth is the vertical distance
between the surface of the flood water
and the surface of ground,
as measured at a given point in space.

In existing standard names, depth is a vertical coordinate, not a vertical
distance (i.e. a difference between two vertical coordinates). For the vertical
extent of a layer we generally use thickness, but I suppose that flood_water_
thickness would not be comprehensible. Can you think of any other alternatives
to "depth" in this case? Given the definition, a possibility would be height_
of_flood_water_surface_above_ground_level.

Post by Eizi TOYODA
6) flood_arrival_time
7) time_at_maximum_flood_depth
8) time_when_flood_water_goes_below_threshold
9) time_span_with_flood_depth_above_threshold

Could you make these more consistent? For instance, is the threshold involved
in (6) as well? I guess it should be. In that case (6) and (7) could be
symmetrical

time_when_flood_water_rises_above_threshold
time_when_flood_water_falls_below_threshold

In (7) I think time_of would sound more natural than time_at. In (9) I would
suggest duration instead of span, since duration is more specific to time and
is used duration_of_sunshine. By analogy, yours could be simply duration_of_
flood, if the definition said that this referred to the threshold. Do you also
need to propose a standard name for the threshold?

Post by Eizi TOYODA
10) hazard_area_flags
The hazard_area_flags is a set of flags representing
different types of hazards for a given point in space.

This seems rather vague to me. Can you spell out what sort of hazard they are?
Also, I think they should probably be string-valued, and not mention "flag"
in the standard name. The flag attributes are a way of encoding string-valued
data variables.

Best wishes

Jonathan

[Eizi TOYODA]

Dear Jonathan,

Thanks a lot for your useful comments.

Post by Jonathan Gregory

Post by Eizi TOYODA
5) ground_altitude

I'm happy with your suggested ground_level_altitude.

Post by Jonathan Gregory

Post by Eizi TOYODA
1) flood_depth

I'd use flood_water_thickness.

Now the river experts I'm working with understood the CF definition of
"depth", so they are flexible using other words.
Your second suggestion height_of_flood_water_surface_above_ground_level is
no problem at all, but a bit long for beginners of CF.

Post by Jonathan Gregory

Post by Eizi TOYODA
6) flood_arrival_time
7) time_at_maximum_flood_depth
8) time_when_flood_water_goes_below_threshold
9) time_span_with_flood_depth_above_threshold

I'm accepting your suggestions on words:

6) time_when_flood_water_rises_above_threshold
7) time_of_maximum_flood_depth
8) time_when_flood_water_falls_below_threshold
9) time_duration_with_flood_water_above_threshold

I wonder perhaps "time_duration" could be "duration", looking at
duration_of_sunshine.

Regarding 6), our planned data is only for the case of threshold=zero, but
it is no problem to generalize the concept to be symmetric with the
"falls_below" counterpart.

Regarding "duration_of_flood", thank you for considering shorthand, but I'd
keep the word "threshold" for all three variables that needs threshold
value.

Post by Jonathan Gregory

Post by Eizi TOYODA
10) hazard_area_flags
The hazard_area_flags is a set of flags representing
different types of hazards for a given point in space.

This seems rather vague to me. Can you spell out what sort of hazard they are?
Also, I think they should probably be string-valued, and not mention "flag"
in the standard name. The flag attributes are a way of encoding string-valued
data variables.

I changed the mind to withdraw that name.

Last year I thought it necessary, since (I thought) the online CF checker
made warnings if flag variables do not have standard name, but today it
doesn't make such message.

Just for your info, I'm thinking of this sort of usage:

byte hzone(lat, lon);
hzone:valid_min = 0b;
hzone:valid_max = 3b;
hzone:flag_masks = 1b, 2b;
hzone:flag_meanings = "swept_away undermined";

The simulation predicts various independent events: the flood water may
swipe buildings away, and/or undermine the ground under the buildings. If
we try to describe the flag variable i.e. whole set of events, the
description tends to be too vague, or if we list events it would be too
specific to this particular simulation. Now I don't believe that is
something to occupy resource of the CF community.

Best Regards,
Eizi TOYODA

P.S. for anyone interested, updated description and sample CDL are
available at:
desc - https://gist.github.com/etoyoda/efb7ceeb010e71d0105c
CDL - https://gist.github.com/etoyoda/1ad78c1df01126c3e731


Best Regards,
--
Eiji (aka Eizi) TOYODA
http://www.google.com/profiles/toyoda.eizi | twitter:e_toyoda | toyoda at
npd.kishou.go.jp

Post by Jonathan Gregory
Dear Eizi
I have comments on some of your names.

Post by Eizi TOYODA
5) ground_altitude

I appreciate the distinction you are making from surface altitude. Yes, we
should stick with surface meaning the bottom of the atmosphere, be it solid
or liquid. In some existing standard names, we have the phrase ground_level
(not just ground, like sea_level). For consistency with these, I'd suggest
ground_level_altitude.

Post by Eizi TOYODA
1) flood_depth
The flood_depth is the vertical distance
between the surface of the flood water
and the surface of ground,
as measured at a given point in space.

In existing standard names, depth is a vertical coordinate, not a vertical
distance (i.e. a difference between two vertical coordinates). For the vertical
extent of a layer we generally use thickness, but I suppose that flood_water_
thickness would not be comprehensible. Can you think of any other alternatives
to "depth" in this case? Given the definition, a possibility would be height_
of_flood_water_surface_above_ground_level.

Post by Eizi TOYODA
6) flood_arrival_time
7) time_at_maximum_flood_depth
8) time_when_flood_water_goes_below_threshold
9) time_span_with_flood_depth_above_threshold

Could you make these more consistent? For instance, is the threshold involved
in (6) as well? I guess it should be. In that case (6) and (7) could be
symmetrical
time_when_flood_water_rises_above_threshold
time_when_flood_water_falls_below_threshold
In (7) I think time_of would sound more natural than time_at. In (9) I would
suggest duration instead of span, since duration is more specific to time and
is used duration_of_sunshine. By analogy, yours could be simply duration_of_
flood, if the definition said that this referred to the threshold. Do you also
need to propose a standard name for the threshold?

Post by Eizi TOYODA
10) hazard_area_flags
The hazard_area_flags is a set of flags representing
different types of hazards for a given point in space.

This seems rather vague to me. Can you spell out what sort of hazard they are?
Also, I think they should probably be string-valued, and not mention "flag"
in the standard name. The flag attributes are a way of encoding string-valued
data variables.
Best wishes
Jonathan
_______________________________________________
CF-metadata mailing list
http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata

[Jonathan Gregory]

Dear Eizi

Post by Eizi TOYODA
I'd use flood_water_thickness.

If you're happy with that it and it makes sense to you and your colleagues,
it would be the choice most consistent with other names.

Post by Eizi TOYODA
Your second suggestion height_of_flood_water_surface_above_ground_level is
no problem at all, but a bit long for beginners of CF.

I agree.

Post by Eizi TOYODA
9) time_duration_with_flood_water_above_threshold
I wonder perhaps "time_duration" could be "duration", looking at
duration_of_sunshine.

"[time] duration with flood" etc. sounds a bit strange to me. I see that
"flood water duration" is a phrase that occurs (in Google). Would you consider
flood_water_duration_above_threshold?

Post by Eizi TOYODA
Regarding 6), our planned data is only for the case of threshold=zero, but
it is no problem to generalize the concept to be symmetric with the
"falls_below" counterpart.

OK. I suppose you will need a scalar coordinate variable with a standard_name
of flood_water_thickness to supply the threshold, and this should have a
default - perhaps zero would be a suitable default.

I think your use of flags and strings to describe hazard conditions is good,
and I appreciate that at this point you don't need to standardise them.

Best wishes

Jonathan

[Eizi TOYODA]

Dear Jonathan,

1) I mean flood_water_thickness makes sense enough and I'm glad to use it.

9) Yes, I and colleagues are happy to use
flood_water_duration_above_threshold.
When possible, it is good to have names sound natural for people speaking
English everyday :)

Thank you so much!

Best Regards,
Eizi


Best Regards,
--
Eiji (aka Eizi) TOYODA
http://www.google.com/profiles/toyoda.eizi

Post by Jonathan Gregory
Dear Eizi

Post by Eizi TOYODA
I'd use flood_water_thickness.

If you're happy with that it and it makes sense to you and your colleagues,
it would be the choice most consistent with other names.

Post by Eizi TOYODA
Your second suggestion height_of_flood_water_surface_above_ground_level

is

Post by Eizi TOYODA
no problem at all, but a bit long for beginners of CF.

I agree.

Post by Eizi TOYODA
9) time_duration_with_flood_water_above_threshold
I wonder perhaps "time_duration" could be "duration", looking at
duration_of_sunshine.

"[time] duration with flood" etc. sounds a bit strange to me. I see that
"flood water duration" is a phrase that occurs (in Google). Would you consider
flood_water_duration_above_threshold?

Post by Eizi TOYODA
Regarding 6), our planned data is only for the case of threshold=zero,

but

Post by Eizi TOYODA
it is no problem to generalize the concept to be symmetric with the
"falls_below" counterpart.

OK. I suppose you will need a scalar coordinate variable with a standard_name
of flood_water_thickness to supply the threshold, and this should have a
default - perhaps zero would be a suitable default.
I think your use of flags and strings to describe hazard conditions is good,
and I appreciate that at this point you don't need to standardise them.
Best wishes
Jonathan
_______________________________________________
CF-metadata mailing list
http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata

[Eizi TOYODA]

Dear CF community,

One month has passed silently after the discussion converged. Is there
anything to do for registration into the standard name table?

Best Regards,
Eizi

P.S. for anyone interested, updated description and a sample CDL are
available at:
desc - https://gist.github.com/etoyoda/efb7ceeb010e71d0105c
CDL - https://gist.github.com/etoyoda/1ad78c1df01126c3e731




Best Regards,
--
Eiji (aka Eizi) TOYODA
http://www.google.com/profiles/toyoda.eizi

Post by Eizi TOYODA
Dear Jonathan,
1) I mean flood_water_thickness makes sense enough and I'm glad to use it.
9) Yes, I and colleagues are happy to use
flood_water_duration_above_threshold.
When possible, it is good to have names sound natural for people
speaking English everyday :)
Thank you so much!
Best Regards,
Eizi
Best Regards,
--
Eiji (aka Eizi) TOYODA
http://www.google.com/profiles/toyoda.eizi
On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Jonathan Gregory <

Post by Jonathan Gregory
Dear Eizi

Post by Eizi TOYODA
I'd use flood_water_thickness.

If you're happy with that it and it makes sense to you and your colleagues,
it would be the choice most consistent with other names.

Post by Eizi TOYODA
Your second suggestion height_of_flood_water_surface_above_ground_level

is

Post by Eizi TOYODA
no problem at all, but a bit long for beginners of CF.

I agree.

Post by Eizi TOYODA
9) time_duration_with_flood_water_above_threshold
I wonder perhaps "time_duration" could be "duration", looking at
duration_of_sunshine.

"[time] duration with flood" etc. sounds a bit strange to me. I see that
"flood water duration" is a phrase that occurs (in Google). Would you consider
flood_water_duration_above_threshold?

Post by Eizi TOYODA
Regarding 6), our planned data is only for the case of threshold=zero,

but

Post by Eizi TOYODA
it is no problem to generalize the concept to be symmetric with the
"falls_below" counterpart.

OK. I suppose you will need a scalar coordinate variable with a standard_name
of flood_water_thickness to supply the threshold, and this should have a
default - perhaps zero would be a suitable default.
I think your use of flags and strings to describe hazard conditions is good,
and I appreciate that at this point you don't need to standardise them.
Best wishes
Jonathan
_______________________________________________
CF-metadata mailing list
http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata

[a***@stfc.ac.uk]

Dear Eizi,

My apologies for not joining the original discussion of these names – I was on annual leave at the time. I’ve added entries for all your proposals to the list of names under discussion: http://cfeditor.ceda.ac.uk/proposals/1?status=active&namefilter=&proposerfilter=Eizi&descfilter=&unitfilter=&yearfilter=&commentfilter=&filter+and+display=Filter.

Regarding the earlier discussion about sea_water, estuaries, rivers, runoff, etc., we have had previous conversations on the mailing list about a generic name for bodies of water on the earth’s surface, but have never reached agreement on a suitable term. I think flood_water is a useful way of describing temporary surface water – if in future there is a need to further distinguish between storm surges, tsunamis, and so on, then we can always introduce more specific standard names.

The following is a summary of the current status of your proposals. I have taken into account the discussion in this thread and in some cases I have modified the definitions a little for consistency with existing names. In particular, I have added wording in the definitions of the names requiring thresholds to make them consistent with the recent discussions we had on GOES-R standard names. If you are happy with these suggestions then I think we can go ahead and accept all the names for publication in the standard name table.

1. flood_water_thickness (m)
'The flood_water_thickness is the vertical distance between the surface of the flood water and the surface of the solid ground, as measured at a given point in space. The standard name ground_level_altitude is used for a data variable giving the geometric height of the ground surface above the geoid. "Flood water" is water that covers land which is normally not covered by water.'

2. flood_water_speed (m s-1)
'Speed is the magnitude of velocity. Flood water is water that covers land which is normally not covered by water.'

3. eastward_flood_water_velocity (m s-1)
'A velocity is a vector quantity. "Eastward" indicates a vector component which is positive when directed eastward (negative westward). Flood water is water that covers land which is normally not covered by water.'

4. northward_flood_water_velocity (m s-1)
'A velocity is a vector quantity. "Northward" indicates a vector component which is positive when directed northward (negative southward). Flood water is water that covers land which is normally not covered by water.'

5. ground_level_altitude (m)
'The ground_level_altitude is the geometric height of the upper boundary of the solid Earth above the geoid, which is the reference geopotential surface. The geoid is similar to mean sea level.'

6. time_when_flood_water_rises_above_threshold (s)
'The quantity with standard name time_when_flood_water_rises_above_threshold is the time elapsed between the breaking of a levee (origin of flood water simulation) and the instant when the depth first rises above a given threshold at a given point in space. If a threshold is supplied, it should be specified by associating a coordinate variable or scalar coordinate variable with the data variable and giving the coordinate variable a standard name of flood_water_thickness. The values of the coordinate variable are the threshold values for the corresponding subarrays of the data variable. If no threshold is specified, its value is taken to be zero. Flood water is water that covers land which is normally not covered by water.'

7. time_of_maximum_flood_depth (s)
'The quantity with standard name time_of_maximum_flood_depth is the time elapsed between the breaking of a levee (origin of flood water simulation) and the instant when the flood depth reaches its maximum during the simulation for a given point in space. Flood water is water that covers land which is normally not covered by water.'

8. time_when_flood_water_falls_below_threshold (s)
'The quantity with standard name time_when_flood_water_falls_below_threshold is the time elapsed between the breaking of a levee (origin of flood water simulation) and the instant when the depth first falls below a given threshold, having already risen to its maximum depth, at a given point in space. If a threshold is supplied, it should be specified by associating a coordinate variable or scalar coordinate variable with the data variable and giving the coordinate variable a standard name of flood_water_thickness. The values of the coordinate variable are the threshold values for the corresponding subarrays of the data variable. If no threshold is specified, its value is taken to be zero. Flood water is water that covers land which is normally not covered by water.'

9. flood_water_duration_above_threshold (s)
'The quantity with standard name flood_water_duration_above_threshold is the time elapsed between the instant when the flood depth first rises above a given threshold until the time it falls below the same threshold for a given point in space. If a threshold is supplied, it should be specified by associating a coordinate variable or scalar coordinate variable with the data variable and giving the coordinate variable a standard name of flood_water_thickness. The values of the coordinate variable are the threshold values for the corresponding subarrays of the data variable. If no threshold is specified, its value is taken to be zero. Flood water is water that covers land which is normally not covered by water.'

Best wishes,
Alison

------
Alison Pamment Tel: [phone]
Centre for Environmental Data Analysis Email: ***@stfc.ac.uk
STFC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory
R25, 2.22
Harwell Oxford, Didcot, OX11 0QX, U.K.


From: CF-metadata [mailto:cf-metadata-***@cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of Eizi TOYODA
Sent: 16 September 2015 11:20
To: CF Metadata List
Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] new standard names for flood simulation

Dear CF community,
One month has passed silently after the discussion converged.  Is there anything to do for registration into the standard name table?

Best Regards,
Eizi

P.S. for anyone interested, updated description and a sample CDL are available at:
  desc - https://gist.github.com/etoyoda/efb7ceeb010e71d0105c
  CDL - https://gist.github.com/etoyoda/1ad78c1df01126c3e731




Best Regards,
--
Eiji (aka Eizi) TOYODA
http://www.google.com/profiles/toyoda.eizi

On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 5:37 PM, Eizi TOYODA <***@gfd-dennou.org> wrote:
Dear Jonathan,

1) I mean flood_water_thickness makes sense enough and I'm glad to use it.

9) Yes, I and colleagues are happy to use flood_water_duration_above_threshold.
  When possible, it is good to have names sound natural for people speaking English everyday :)

Thank you so much!

Best Regards,
Eizi


Best Regards,
--
Eiji (aka Eizi) TOYODA
http://www.google.com/profiles/toyoda.eizi

On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Jonathan Gregory <***@reading.ac.uk> wrote:
Dear Eizi

Post by Eizi TOYODA
I'd use flood_water_thickness.

If you're happy with that it and it makes sense to you and your colleagues,
it would be the choice most consistent with other names.

Post by Eizi TOYODA
Your second suggestion height_of_flood_water_surface_above_ground_level is
no problem at all, but a bit long for beginners of CF.

I agree.

Post by Eizi TOYODA
9) time_duration_with_flood_water_above_threshold
I wonder perhaps "time_duration" could be "duration", looking at
duration_of_sunshine.

"[time] duration with flood" etc. sounds a bit strange to me. I see that
"flood water duration" is a phrase that occurs (in Google). Would you consider
flood_water_duration_above_threshold?

Post by Eizi TOYODA
Regarding 6), our planned data is only for the case of threshold=zero, but
it is no problem to generalize the concept to be symmetric with the
"falls_below" counterpart.

OK. I suppose you will need a scalar coordinate variable with a standard_name
of flood_water_thickness to supply the threshold, and this should have a
default - perhaps zero would be a suitable default.

I think your use of flags and strings to describe hazard conditions is good,
and I appreciate that at this point you don't need to standardise them.

Best wishes

Jonathan
_______________________________________________
CF-metadata mailing list
CF-***@cgd.ucar.edu
http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata

[Chris Barker]

All good.

A couple nitpicky questions:

1. flood_water_thickness (m)
I'd expect this to be "flood_water_depth" -- never heard the term thickness
used. Or does that use of depth conflict with a definition elsewhere. In
which case, maybe a note is in order.

2. flood_water_speed (m s-1)

Post by a***@stfc.ac.uk
'Speed is the magnitude of velocity. Flood water is water that covers land
which is normally not covered by water.'

id this depth-averaged, or at a given depth, height, etc? or is that
distinction defined elsewhere depending on use?

5. ground_level_altitude (m)

Post by a***@stfc.ac.uk
'The ground_level_altitude is the geometric height of the upper boundary
of the solid Earth above the geoid, which is the reference geopotential
surface. The geoid is similar to mean sea level.'

we really don't already have this? interesting....


But good stuff overall.

-Chris
--
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer

Emergency Response Division
NOAA/NOS/OR&R [phone] voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE [phone] fax
Seattle, WA 98115 [phone] main reception

***@noaa.gov

[a***@stfc.ac.uk]

Dear Chris,

Thanks for your comments on these names.

1. "Thickness" is the term generally used in CF standard names to describe the vertical extent of a layer. For example, we have the existing names atmosphere_boundary_layer_thickness and ocean_mixed_layer_thickness, and there are quite a number of others that follow this pattern. Therefore I think flood_water_thickness is the correct term for the new name.

2. The name as proposed can be used with a vertical coordinate variable or scalar coordinate variable to specify the altitude/height above the solid earth surface to which the speed applies. So you could have a speed that varies in the vertical or a mean speed representative of the whole flood_water layer. If the latter is required, you would use a scalar vertical coordinate with coordinate bounds specifying the full extent of the layer and a cell_methods of "altitude: mean". If the data values were simply taken from a representative level you would do the same thing except to specify a cell_methods of "altitude:point", I think. This flexibility means that we don't need to be prescriptive about vertical processing in the standard name definition.

3. Indeed this is a new name (distinct from the existing name surface_altitude). It is longstanding CF practice that we don't add new standard names unless someone has an actual need for them. Occasionally, this may lead to "gaps" in the standard name table which some people find surprising, but if a commonly used quantity is "missing" it simply means that no one has ever asked for it :)

Best wishes,
Alison

------
Alison Pamment Tel: [phone]
Centre for Environmental Data Analysis Email: ***@stfc.ac.uk
STFC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory
R25, 2.22
Harwell Oxford, Didcot, OX11 0QX, U.K.


From: Chris Barker [mailto:***@noaa.gov]
Sent: 16 September 2015 18:54
To: Pamment, Alison (STFC,RAL,RALSP)
Cc: Eizi TOYODA; cf-***@cgd.ucar.edu
Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] new standard names for flood simulation

All good.

A couple nitpicky questions:

1. flood_water_thickness (m)

I'd expect this to be "flood_water_depth" -- never heard the term thickness used. Or does that use of depth conflict with a definition elsewhere. In which case, maybe a note is in order.

2. flood_water_speed (m s-1)
'Speed is the magnitude of velocity. Flood water is water that covers land which is normally not covered by water.'

id this depth-averaged, or at a given depth, height, etc? or is that distinction defined elsewhere depending on use? 

5. ground_level_altitude (m)
'The ground_level_altitude is the geometric height of the upper boundary of the solid Earth above the geoid, which is the reference geopotential surface. The geoid is similar to mean sea level.'

we really don't already have this? interesting....


But good stuff overall.

-Chris


--

Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer

Emergency Response Division
NOAA/NOS/OR&R            [phone]   voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE   [phone]   fax
Seattle, WA  98115       [phone]   main reception

***@noaa.gov

[Chris Barker]

Post by a***@stfc.ac.uk
Dear Chris,
Thanks for your comments on these names.

All sounds good -- go for it!

-CHB

Post by a***@stfc.ac.uk
1. "Thickness" is the term generally used in CF standard names to describe
the vertical extent of a layer. For example, we have the existing names
atmosphere_boundary_layer_thickness and ocean_mixed_layer_thickness, and
there are quite a number of others that follow this pattern. Therefore I
think flood_water_thickness is the correct term for the new name.
2. The name as proposed can be used with a vertical coordinate variable or
scalar coordinate variable to specify the altitude/height above the solid
earth surface to which the speed applies. So you could have a speed that
varies in the vertical or a mean speed representative of the whole
flood_water layer. If the latter is required, you would use a scalar
vertical coordinate with coordinate bounds specifying the full extent of
the layer and a cell_methods of "altitude: mean". If the data values were
simply taken from a representative level you would do the same thing except
to specify a cell_methods of "altitude:point", I think. This flexibility
means that we don't need to be prescriptive about vertical processing in
the standard name definition.
3. Indeed this is a new name (distinct from the existing name
surface_altitude). It is longstanding CF practice that we don't add new
standard names unless someone has an actual need for them. Occasionally,
this may lead to "gaps" in the standard name table which some people find
surprising, but if a commonly used quantity is "missing" it simply means
that no one has ever asked for it :)
Best wishes,
Alison
------
Alison Pamment Tel: [phone]
STFC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory
R25, 2.22
Harwell Oxford, Didcot, OX11 0QX, U.K.
Sent: 16 September 2015 18:54
To: Pamment, Alison (STFC,RAL,RALSP)
Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] new standard names for flood simulation
All good.
1. flood_water_thickness (m)
I'd expect this to be "flood_water_depth" -- never heard the term
thickness used. Or does that use of depth conflict with a definition
elsewhere. In which case, maybe a note is in order.
2. flood_water_speed (m s-1)
'Speed is the magnitude of velocity. Flood water is water that covers land
which is normally not covered by water.'
id this depth-averaged, or at a given depth, height, etc? or is that
distinction defined elsewhere depending on use?
5. ground_level_altitude (m)
'The ground_level_altitude is the geometric height of the upper boundary
of the solid Earth above the geoid, which is the reference geopotential
surface. The geoid is similar to mean sea level.'
we really don't already have this? interesting....
But good stuff overall.
-Chris
--
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer
Emergency Response Division
NOAA/NOS/OR&R [phone] voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE [phone] fax
Seattle, WA 98115 [phone] main reception

--
Christopher Barker, Ph.D.
Oceanographer

Emergency Response Division
NOAA/NOS/OR&R [phone] voice
7600 Sand Point Way NE [phone] fax
Seattle, WA 98115 [phone] main reception

***@noaa.gov

[Eizi TOYODA]

Dear Alison,

Thanks for ticketing my proposals. Your refinements of the language are
mostly welcome, but I realized I need to clarify one point (thanks to your
assistance) in items 8 and 9.

The hydrology people are interested in when a given region is safe to
enter. So the question is the time the flood water goes below the
threshold for the *last* time, not for the *first* time.

So I'd like to have the first sentences of 8 and 9 like as follows. I
always welcome more natural English language.

Best Regards,
Eizi


8. time_when_flood_water_falls_below_threshold

The quantity with standard name time_when_flood_water_falls_below_threshold
is the time elapsed between the breaking of a levee (origin of flood water
simulation) and the instant when the depth *first* falls below a given
threshold, having already risen to its maximum depth, at a given point in
space.

'The quantity with standard name
time_when_flood_water_falls_below_threshold is the time elapsed between the
breaking of a levee (origin of flood water simulation) and the instant when
the depth falls below a given threshold *for the last time*, having already
risen to its maximum depth, at a given point in space.

9. flood_water_duration_above_threshold

'The quantity with standard name flood_water_duration_above_threshold is
the time elapsed between the instant when the flood depth first rises above
a given threshold until the time it falls below the same threshold for a
given point in space.

'The quantity with standard name flood_water_duration_above_threshold is
the time elapsed between the instant when the flood depth first rises above
a given threshold until the time it falls below the same threshold *for the
last time* for a given point in space.




Best Regards,
--
Eiji (aka Eizi) TOYODA
http://www.google.com/profiles/toyoda.eizi

Post by a***@stfc.ac.uk
Dear Eizi,
My apologies for not joining the original discussion of these names – I
was on annual leave at the time. I’ve added entries for all your proposals
http://cfeditor.ceda.ac.uk/proposals/1?status=active&namefilter=&proposerfilter=Eizi&descfilter=&unitfilter=&yearfilter=&commentfilter=&filter+and+display=Filter
.
Regarding the earlier discussion about sea_water, estuaries, rivers,
runoff, etc., we have had previous conversations on the mailing list about
a generic name for bodies of water on the earth’s surface, but have never
reached agreement on a suitable term. I think flood_water is a useful way
of describing temporary surface water – if in future there is a need to
further distinguish between storm surges, tsunamis, and so on, then we can
always introduce more specific standard names.
The following is a summary of the current status of your proposals. I have
taken into account the discussion in this thread and in some cases I have
modified the definitions a little for consistency with existing names. In
particular, I have added wording in the definitions of the names requiring
thresholds to make them consistent with the recent discussions we had on
GOES-R standard names. If you are happy with these suggestions then I think
we can go ahead and accept all the names for publication in the standard
name table.
1. flood_water_thickness (m)
'The flood_water_thickness is the vertical distance between the surface of
the flood water and the surface of the solid ground, as measured at a given
point in space. The standard name ground_level_altitude is used for a data
variable giving the geometric height of the ground surface above the geoid.
"Flood water" is water that covers land which is normally not covered by
water.'
2. flood_water_speed (m s-1)
'Speed is the magnitude of velocity. Flood water is water that covers land
which is normally not covered by water.'
3. eastward_flood_water_velocity (m s-1)
'A velocity is a vector quantity. "Eastward" indicates a vector component
which is positive when directed eastward (negative westward). Flood water
is water that covers land which is normally not covered by water.'
4. northward_flood_water_velocity (m s-1)
'A velocity is a vector quantity. "Northward" indicates a vector component
which is positive when directed northward (negative southward). Flood water
is water that covers land which is normally not covered by water.'
5. ground_level_altitude (m)
'The ground_level_altitude is the geometric height of the upper boundary
of the solid Earth above the geoid, which is the reference geopotential
surface. The geoid is similar to mean sea level.'
6. time_when_flood_water_rises_above_threshold (s)
'The quantity with standard name
time_when_flood_water_rises_above_threshold is the time elapsed between the
breaking of a levee (origin of flood water simulation) and the instant when
the depth first rises above a given threshold at a given point in space. If
a threshold is supplied, it should be specified by associating a coordinate
variable or scalar coordinate variable with the data variable and giving
the coordinate variable a standard name of flood_water_thickness. The
values of the coordinate variable are the threshold values for the
corresponding subarrays of the data variable. If no threshold is specified,
its value is taken to be zero. Flood water is water that covers land which
is normally not covered by water.'
7. time_of_maximum_flood_depth (s)
'The quantity with standard name time_of_maximum_flood_depth is the time
elapsed between the breaking of a levee (origin of flood water simulation)
and the instant when the flood depth reaches its maximum during the
simulation for a given point in space. Flood water is water that covers
land which is normally not covered by water.'
8. time_when_flood_water_falls_below_threshold (s)
'The quantity with standard name
time_when_flood_water_falls_below_threshold is the time elapsed between the
breaking of a levee (origin of flood water simulation) and the instant when
the depth first falls below a given threshold, having already risen to its
maximum depth, at a given point in space. If a threshold is supplied, it
should be specified by associating a coordinate variable or scalar
coordinate variable with the data variable and giving the coordinate
variable a standard name of flood_water_thickness. The values of the
coordinate variable are the threshold values for the corresponding
subarrays of the data variable. If no threshold is specified, its value is
taken to be zero. Flood water is water that covers land which is normally
not covered by water.'
9. flood_water_duration_above_threshold (s)
'The quantity with standard name flood_water_duration_above_threshold is
the time elapsed between the instant when the flood depth first rises above
a given threshold until the time it falls below the same threshold for a
given point in space. If a threshold is supplied, it should be specified by
associating a coordinate variable or scalar coordinate variable with the
data variable and giving the coordinate variable a standard name of
flood_water_thickness. The values of the coordinate variable are the
threshold values for the corresponding subarrays of the data variable. If
no threshold is specified, its value is taken to be zero. Flood water is
water that covers land which is normally not covered by water.'
Best wishes,
Alison
------
Alison Pamment Tel: [phone]
STFC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory
R25, 2.22
Harwell Oxford, Didcot, OX11 0QX, U.K.
Sent: 16 September 2015 11:20
To: CF Metadata List
Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] new standard names for flood simulation
Dear CF community,
One month has passed silently after the discussion converged. Is there
anything to do for registration into the standard name table?
Best Regards,
Eizi
desc - https://gist.github.com/etoyoda/efb7ceeb010e71d0105c
CDL - https://gist.github.com/etoyoda/1ad78c1df01126c3e731
Best Regards,
--
Eiji (aka Eizi) TOYODA
http://www.google.com/profiles/toyoda.eizi
Dear Jonathan,
1) I mean flood_water_thickness makes sense enough and I'm glad to use it.
9) Yes, I and colleagues are happy to use
flood_water_duration_above_threshold.
When possible, it is good to have names sound natural for people
speaking English everyday :)
Thank you so much!
Best Regards,
Eizi
Best Regards,
--
Eiji (aka Eizi) TOYODA
http://www.google.com/profiles/toyoda.eizi
On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Jonathan Gregory <
Dear Eizi

Post by Eizi TOYODA
I'd use flood_water_thickness.

If you're happy with that it and it makes sense to you and your colleagues,
it would be the choice most consistent with other names.

Post by Eizi TOYODA
Your second suggestion height_of_flood_water_surface_above_ground_level

is

Post by Eizi TOYODA
no problem at all, but a bit long for beginners of CF.

I agree.

Post by Eizi TOYODA
9) time_duration_with_flood_water_above_threshold
I wonder perhaps "time_duration" could be "duration", looking at
duration_of_sunshine.

"[time] duration with flood" etc. sounds a bit strange to me. I see that
"flood water duration" is a phrase that occurs (in Google). Would you consider
flood_water_duration_above_threshold?

Post by Eizi TOYODA
Regarding 6), our planned data is only for the case of threshold=zero,

but

Post by Eizi TOYODA
it is no problem to generalize the concept to be symmetric with the
"falls_below" counterpart.

OK. I suppose you will need a scalar coordinate variable with a standard_name
of flood_water_thickness to supply the threshold, and this should have a
default - perhaps zero would be a suitable default.
I think your use of flags and strings to describe hazard conditions is good,
and I appreciate that at this point you don't need to standardise them.
Best wishes
Jonathan
_______________________________________________
CF-metadata mailing list
http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
_______________________________________________
CF-metadata mailing list
http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata

[Eizi TOYODA]

Dear Alison,

Months has passed since this conversation. Nobody seems to have further
comments. I expected the proposals was adopted, but it is still listed as
under discussion. Could you help me to change the status, or tell me
please if I have some action to do. Thank you!

Best Regards,
Eizi

Best Regards,
--
Eiji (aka Eizi) TOYODA
http://www.google.com/profiles/toyoda.eizi

Post by Eizi TOYODA
Dear Alison,
Thanks for ticketing my proposals. Your refinements of the language are
mostly welcome, but I realized I need to clarify one point (thanks to your
assistance) in items 8 and 9.
The hydrology people are interested in when a given region is safe to
enter. So the question is the time the flood water goes below the
threshold for the *last* time, not for the *first* time.
So I'd like to have the first sentences of 8 and 9 like as follows. I
always welcome more natural English language.
Best Regards,
Eizi
8. time_when_flood_water_falls_below_threshold
The quantity with standard name
time_when_flood_water_falls_below_threshold is the time elapsed between the
breaking of a levee (origin of flood water simulation) and the instant when
the depth *first* falls below a given threshold, having already risen to
its maximum depth, at a given point in space.
'The quantity with standard name
time_when_flood_water_falls_below_threshold is the time elapsed between the
breaking of a levee (origin of flood water simulation) and the instant when
the depth falls below a given threshold *for the last time*, having
already risen to its maximum depth, at a given point in space.
9. flood_water_duration_above_threshold
'The quantity with standard name flood_water_duration_above_threshold is
the time elapsed between the instant when the flood depth first rises above
a given threshold until the time it falls below the same threshold for a
given point in space.
'The quantity with standard name flood_water_duration_above_threshold is
the time elapsed between the instant when the flood depth first rises above
a given threshold until the time it falls below the same threshold *for
the last time* for a given point in space.
Best Regards,
--
Eiji (aka Eizi) TOYODA
http://www.google.com/profiles/toyoda.eizi

Post by a***@stfc.ac.uk
Dear Eizi,
My apologies for not joining the original discussion of these names – I
was on annual leave at the time. I’ve added entries for all your proposals
http://cfeditor.ceda.ac.uk/proposals/1?status=active&namefilter=&proposerfilter=Eizi&descfilter=&unitfilter=&yearfilter=&commentfilter=&filter+and+display=Filter
.
Regarding the earlier discussion about sea_water, estuaries, rivers,
runoff, etc., we have had previous conversations on the mailing list about
a generic name for bodies of water on the earth’s surface, but have never
reached agreement on a suitable term. I think flood_water is a useful way
of describing temporary surface water – if in future there is a need to
further distinguish between storm surges, tsunamis, and so on, then we can
always introduce more specific standard names.
The following is a summary of the current status of your proposals. I
have taken into account the discussion in this thread and in some cases I
have modified the definitions a little for consistency with existing names.
In particular, I have added wording in the definitions of the names
requiring thresholds to make them consistent with the recent discussions we
had on GOES-R standard names. If you are happy with these suggestions then
I think we can go ahead and accept all the names for publication in the
standard name table.
1. flood_water_thickness (m)
'The flood_water_thickness is the vertical distance between the surface
of the flood water and the surface of the solid ground, as measured at a
given point in space. The standard name ground_level_altitude is used for a
data variable giving the geometric height of the ground surface above the
geoid. "Flood water" is water that covers land which is normally not
covered by water.'
2. flood_water_speed (m s-1)
'Speed is the magnitude of velocity. Flood water is water that covers
land which is normally not covered by water.'
3. eastward_flood_water_velocity (m s-1)
'A velocity is a vector quantity. "Eastward" indicates a vector component
which is positive when directed eastward (negative westward). Flood water
is water that covers land which is normally not covered by water.'
4. northward_flood_water_velocity (m s-1)
'A velocity is a vector quantity. "Northward" indicates a vector
component which is positive when directed northward (negative southward).
Flood water is water that covers land which is normally not covered by
water.'
5. ground_level_altitude (m)
'The ground_level_altitude is the geometric height of the upper boundary
of the solid Earth above the geoid, which is the reference geopotential
surface. The geoid is similar to mean sea level.'
6. time_when_flood_water_rises_above_threshold (s)
'The quantity with standard name
time_when_flood_water_rises_above_threshold is the time elapsed between the
breaking of a levee (origin of flood water simulation) and the instant when
the depth first rises above a given threshold at a given point in space. If
a threshold is supplied, it should be specified by associating a coordinate
variable or scalar coordinate variable with the data variable and giving
the coordinate variable a standard name of flood_water_thickness. The
values of the coordinate variable are the threshold values for the
corresponding subarrays of the data variable. If no threshold is specified,
its value is taken to be zero. Flood water is water that covers land which
is normally not covered by water.'
7. time_of_maximum_flood_depth (s)
'The quantity with standard name time_of_maximum_flood_depth is the time
elapsed between the breaking of a levee (origin of flood water simulation)
and the instant when the flood depth reaches its maximum during the
simulation for a given point in space. Flood water is water that covers
land which is normally not covered by water.'
8. time_when_flood_water_falls_below_threshold (s)
'The quantity with standard name
time_when_flood_water_falls_below_threshold is the time elapsed between the
breaking of a levee (origin of flood water simulation) and the instant when
the depth first falls below a given threshold, having already risen to its
maximum depth, at a given point in space. If a threshold is supplied, it
should be specified by associating a coordinate variable or scalar
coordinate variable with the data variable and giving the coordinate
variable a standard name of flood_water_thickness. The values of the
coordinate variable are the threshold values for the corresponding
subarrays of the data variable. If no threshold is specified, its value is
taken to be zero. Flood water is water that covers land which is normally
not covered by water.'
9. flood_water_duration_above_threshold (s)
'The quantity with standard name flood_water_duration_above_threshold is
the time elapsed between the instant when the flood depth first rises above
a given threshold until the time it falls below the same threshold for a
given point in space. If a threshold is supplied, it should be specified by
associating a coordinate variable or scalar coordinate variable with the
data variable and giving the coordinate variable a standard name of
flood_water_thickness. The values of the coordinate variable are the
threshold values for the corresponding subarrays of the data variable. If
no threshold is specified, its value is taken to be zero. Flood water is
water that covers land which is normally not covered by water.'
Best wishes,
Alison
------
Alison Pamment Tel: [phone]
STFC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory
R25, 2.22
Harwell Oxford, Didcot, OX11 0QX, U.K.
Sent: 16 September 2015 11:20
To: CF Metadata List
Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] new standard names for flood simulation
Dear CF community,
One month has passed silently after the discussion converged. Is there
anything to do for registration into the standard name table?
Best Regards,
Eizi
desc - https://gist.github.com/etoyoda/efb7ceeb010e71d0105c
CDL - https://gist.github.com/etoyoda/1ad78c1df01126c3e731
Best Regards,
--
Eiji (aka Eizi) TOYODA
http://www.google.com/profiles/toyoda.eizi
Dear Jonathan,
1) I mean flood_water_thickness makes sense enough and I'm glad to use it.
9) Yes, I and colleagues are happy to use
flood_water_duration_above_threshold.
When possible, it is good to have names sound natural for people
speaking English everyday :)
Thank you so much!
Best Regards,
Eizi
Best Regards,
--
Eiji (aka Eizi) TOYODA
http://www.google.com/profiles/toyoda.eizi
On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Jonathan Gregory <
Dear Eizi

Post by Eizi TOYODA
I'd use flood_water_thickness.

If you're happy with that it and it makes sense to you and your colleagues,
it would be the choice most consistent with other names.

Post by Eizi TOYODA
Your second suggestion height_of_flood_water_surface_above_ground_level

is

Post by Eizi TOYODA
no problem at all, but a bit long for beginners of CF.

I agree.

Post by Eizi TOYODA
9) time_duration_with_flood_water_above_threshold
I wonder perhaps "time_duration" could be "duration", looking at
duration_of_sunshine.

"[time] duration with flood" etc. sounds a bit strange to me. I see that
"flood water duration" is a phrase that occurs (in Google). Would you consider
flood_water_duration_above_threshold?

Post by Eizi TOYODA
Regarding 6), our planned data is only for the case of threshold=zero,

but

Post by Eizi TOYODA
it is no problem to generalize the concept to be symmetric with the
"falls_below" counterpart.

OK. I suppose you will need a scalar coordinate variable with a standard_name
of flood_water_thickness to supply the threshold, and this should have a
default - perhaps zero would be a suitable default.
I think your use of flags and strings to describe hazard conditions is good,
and I appreciate that at this point you don't need to standardise them.
Best wishes
Jonathan
_______________________________________________
CF-metadata mailing list
http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
_______________________________________________
CF-metadata mailing list
http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata

[a***@stfc.ac.uk]

Dear Eizi,

Yes, sorry for taking so long to ‘finish off’ these names. I think we had agreed almost everything except that you had asked for changes in the definitions of two of the names. This is now done and I have changed the status of all nine names to ‘accepted’ so they will be included in next week’s update of the standard name table. You can check them all at: http://cfeditor.ceda.ac.uk/proposals/1?status=active&namefilter=&proposerfilter=eizi&descfilter=&unitfilter=&yearfilter=&commentfilter=&filter+and+display=Filter.

Best wishes,
Alison

------
Alison Pamment Tel: [phone]
Centre for Environmental Data Analysis Email: ***@stfc.ac.uk<mailto:***@rl.ac.uk>
STFC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory
R25, 2.22
Harwell Campus, Didcot, OX11 0QX, U.K.


From: ***@gmail.com [mailto:***@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Eizi TOYODA
Sent: 12 May 2016 13:48
To: Pamment, Alison (STFC,RAL,RALSP)
Cc: CF Metadata List
Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] new standard names for flood simulation

Dear Alison,

Months has passed since this conversation. Nobody seems to have further comments. I expected the proposals was adopted, but it is still listed as under discussion. Could you help me to change the status, or tell me please if I have some action to do. Thank you!

Best Regards,
Eizi

Best Regards,
--
Eiji (aka Eizi) TOYODA
http://www.google.com/profiles/toyoda.eizi

On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Eizi TOYODA <***@npd.kishou.go.jp<mailto:***@npd.kishou.go.jp>> wrote:
Dear Alison,
Thanks for ticketing my proposals. Your refinements of the language are mostly welcome, but I realized I need to clarify one point (thanks to your assistance) in items 8 and 9.
The hydrology people are interested in when a given region is safe to enter. So the question is the time the flood water goes below the threshold for the last time, not for the first time.
So I'd like to have the first sentences of 8 and 9 like as follows. I always welcome more natural English language.
Best Regards,
Eizi


8. time_when_flood_water_falls_below_threshold

The quantity with standard name time_when_flood_water_falls_below_threshold is the time elapsed between the breaking of a levee (origin of flood water simulation) and the instant when the depth first falls below a given threshold, having already risen to its maximum depth, at a given point in space.

'The quantity with standard name time_when_flood_water_falls_below_threshold is the time elapsed between the breaking of a levee (origin of flood water simulation) and the instant when the depth falls below a given threshold for the last time, having already risen to its maximum depth, at a given point in space.

9. flood_water_duration_above_threshold

'The quantity with standard name flood_water_duration_above_threshold is the time elapsed between the instant when the flood depth first rises above a given threshold until the time it falls below the same threshold for a given point in space.

'The quantity with standard name flood_water_duration_above_threshold is the time elapsed between the instant when the flood depth first rises above a given threshold until the time it falls below the same threshold for the last time for a given point in space.



Best Regards,
--
Eiji (aka Eizi) TOYODA
http://www.google.com/profiles/toyoda.eizi

On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 1:26 AM, <***@stfc.ac.uk<mailto:***@stfc.ac.uk>> wrote:
Dear Eizi,

My apologies for not joining the original discussion of these names – I was on annual leave at the time. I’ve added entries for all your proposals to the list of names under discussion: http://cfeditor.ceda.ac.uk/proposals/1?status=active&namefilter=&proposerfilter=Eizi&descfilter=&unitfilter=&yearfilter=&commentfilter=&filter+and+display=Filter.

Regarding the earlier discussion about sea_water, estuaries, rivers, runoff, etc., we have had previous conversations on the mailing list about a generic name for bodies of water on the earth’s surface, but have never reached agreement on a suitable term. I think flood_water is a useful way of describing temporary surface water – if in future there is a need to further distinguish between storm surges, tsunamis, and so on, then we can always introduce more specific standard names.

The following is a summary of the current status of your proposals. I have taken into account the discussion in this thread and in some cases I have modified the definitions a little for consistency with existing names. In particular, I have added wording in the definitions of the names requiring thresholds to make them consistent with the recent discussions we had on GOES-R standard names. If you are happy with these suggestions then I think we can go ahead and accept all the names for publication in the standard name table.

1. flood_water_thickness (m)
'The flood_water_thickness is the vertical distance between the surface of the flood water and the surface of the solid ground, as measured at a given point in space. The standard name ground_level_altitude is used for a data variable giving the geometric height of the ground surface above the geoid. "Flood water" is water that covers land which is normally not covered by water.'

2. flood_water_speed (m s-1)
'Speed is the magnitude of velocity. Flood water is water that covers land which is normally not covered by water.'

3. eastward_flood_water_velocity (m s-1)
'A velocity is a vector quantity. "Eastward" indicates a vector component which is positive when directed eastward (negative westward). Flood water is water that covers land which is normally not covered by water.'

4. northward_flood_water_velocity (m s-1)
'A velocity is a vector quantity. "Northward" indicates a vector component which is positive when directed northward (negative southward). Flood water is water that covers land which is normally not covered by water.'

5. ground_level_altitude (m)
'The ground_level_altitude is the geometric height of the upper boundary of the solid Earth above the geoid, which is the reference geopotential surface. The geoid is similar to mean sea level.'

6. time_when_flood_water_rises_above_threshold (s)
'The quantity with standard name time_when_flood_water_rises_above_threshold is the time elapsed between the breaking of a levee (origin of flood water simulation) and the instant when the depth first rises above a given threshold at a given point in space. If a threshold is supplied, it should be specified by associating a coordinate variable or scalar coordinate variable with the data variable and giving the coordinate variable a standard name of flood_water_thickness. The values of the coordinate variable are the threshold values for the corresponding subarrays of the data variable. If no threshold is specified, its value is taken to be zero. Flood water is water that covers land which is normally not covered by water.'

7. time_of_maximum_flood_depth (s)
'The quantity with standard name time_of_maximum_flood_depth is the time elapsed between the breaking of a levee (origin of flood water simulation) and the instant when the flood depth reaches its maximum during the simulation for a given point in space. Flood water is water that covers land which is normally not covered by water.'

8. time_when_flood_water_falls_below_threshold (s)
'The quantity with standard name time_when_flood_water_falls_below_threshold is the time elapsed between the breaking of a levee (origin of flood water simulation) and the instant when the depth first falls below a given threshold, having already risen to its maximum depth, at a given point in space. If a threshold is supplied, it should be specified by associating a coordinate variable or scalar coordinate variable with the data variable and giving the coordinate variable a standard name of flood_water_thickness. The values of the coordinate variable are the threshold values for the corresponding subarrays of the data variable. If no threshold is specified, its value is taken to be zero. Flood water is water that covers land which is normally not covered by water.'

9. flood_water_duration_above_threshold (s)
'The quantity with standard name flood_water_duration_above_threshold is the time elapsed between the instant when the flood depth first rises above a given threshold until the time it falls below the same threshold for a given point in space. If a threshold is supplied, it should be specified by associating a coordinate variable or scalar coordinate variable with the data variable and giving the coordinate variable a standard name of flood_water_thickness. The values of the coordinate variable are the threshold values for the corresponding subarrays of the data variable. If no threshold is specified, its value is taken to be zero. Flood water is water that covers land which is normally not covered by water.'

Best wishes,
Alison

------
Alison Pamment Tel: [phone]
Centre for Environmental Data Analysis Email: ***@stfc.ac.uk<mailto:***@stfc.ac.uk>
STFC Rutherford Appleton Laboratory
R25, 2.22
Harwell Oxford, Didcot, OX11 0QX, U.K.


From: CF-metadata [mailto:cf-metadata-***@cgd.ucar.edu<mailto:cf-metadata-***@cgd.ucar.edu>] On Behalf Of Eizi TOYODA
Sent: 16 September 2015 11:20
To: CF Metadata List
Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] new standard names for flood simulation
Dear CF community,
One month has passed silently after the discussion converged. Is there anything to do for registration into the standard name table?

Best Regards,
Eizi

P.S. for anyone interested, updated description and a sample CDL are available at:
desc - https://gist.github.com/etoyoda/efb7ceeb010e71d0105c
CDL - https://gist.github.com/etoyoda/1ad78c1df01126c3e731




Best Regards,
--
Eiji (aka Eizi) TOYODA
http://www.google.com/profiles/toyoda.eizi

On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 5:37 PM, Eizi TOYODA <***@gfd-dennou.org<mailto:***@gfd-dennou.org>> wrote:
Dear Jonathan,

1) I mean flood_water_thickness makes sense enough and I'm glad to use it.

9) Yes, I and colleagues are happy to use flood_water_duration_above_threshold.
When possible, it is good to have names sound natural for people speaking English everyday :)

Thank you so much!

Best Regards,
Eizi


Best Regards,
--
Eiji (aka Eizi) TOYODA
http://www.google.com/profiles/toyoda.eizi

On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 1:40 AM, Jonathan Gregory <***@reading.ac.uk<mailto:***@reading.ac.uk>> wrote:
Dear Eizi

Post by Eizi TOYODA
I'd use flood_water_thickness.

If you're happy with that it and it makes sense to you and your colleagues,
it would be the choice most consistent with other names.

Post by Eizi TOYODA
Your second suggestion height_of_flood_water_surface_above_ground_level is
no problem at all, but a bit long for beginners of CF.

I agree.

Post by Eizi TOYODA
9) time_duration_with_flood_water_above_threshold
I wonder perhaps "time_duration" could be "duration", looking at
duration_of_sunshine.

"[time] duration with flood" etc. sounds a bit strange to me. I see that
"flood water duration" is a phrase that occurs (in Google). Would you consider
flood_water_duration_above_threshold?

Post by Eizi TOYODA
Regarding 6), our planned data is only for the case of threshold=zero, but
it is no problem to generalize the concept to be symmetric with the
"falls_below" counterpart.

OK. I suppose you will need a scalar coordinate variable with a standard_name
of flood_water_thickness to supply the threshold, and this should have a
default - perhaps zero would be a suitable default.

I think your use of flags and strings to describe hazard conditions is good,
and I appreciate that at this point you don't need to standardise them.

Best wishes

Jonathan
_______________________________________________
CF-metadata mailing list
CF-***@cgd.ucar.edu<mailto:CF-***@cgd.ucar.edu>
http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata


_______________________________________________
CF-metadata mailing list
CF-***@cgd.ucar.edu<mailto:CF-***@cgd.ucar.edu>
http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata